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Ask HN: Is there a business for extracting US tech talent?

22 points by Arubis 12 hours ago | 19 comments

As both the economy and policy of the US shift rapidly and show signs of accelerating, I hear more and more of my colleagues voicing the desire to up stakes and relocate to somewhere more stable and in line with their own values--an opinion that I share. But getting visa sponsorship in much of the developed world is a scattershot effort; best I can tell, it's almost something you have to track down on a per-company basis, prioritizing the larger ones for access.

This feels like a hole in a quickly growing market--are there firms or orgs that help consolidate visa-sponsoring job info for high-demand professions, particularly in tech? Most of what I've seen out there is generic guidance and https://relocate.me, or is EU-focused for folks already in the EEU.

0xfaded 5 hours ago

There are straightforward immigration paths to most of the desirable countries within Europe if you can land a job that pays a standard deviation above the mean, which most tech workers can. However, you're still looking at 1/4 of a silicon valley salary.

The game plan should really be more centered around making your money in the US and then moving for the better quality of life or to do something that aligns with your values. I'd say it's the moving wealth part where people are more likely to fall into traps (ever heard of an exit tax?), but even then you're probably still better off hiring a local account (cost me 2k when I first moved to Denmark, and another 2k when I left :facepalm:).

drdunce 7 hours ago

Unfortunately, there isn't demand and there's no such thing as a high demand tech professional anymore. The EU is way over saturated with tech talent and that's unlikely to change.

j7ake 9 hours ago

Why particularly in tech? Find an industry where EU salaries are better than USA and you’ll have much better traction.

dmitrygr 9 hours ago

> somewhere more stable and in line with their own values

Where else other than USA does tech pay such a multiple of median salary?

“Huff puff I’m going to leave” is easy. Finding somewhere to actually go isn’t.

scarface_74 8 hours ago

Exactly and it’s not as if every other country and company in the world doesn’t value profits over everything else. They aren’t going to go on missionary trips feeding starving children.

ldjkfkdsjnv 10 hours ago

Yeah its called wipro/infosys/cognizant

mamonster 4 hours ago

They aren't really extracting tech talent. Their dream gig is getting a S4HANA project at a pharma company that keeps getting renewed and expanded, not actually building something.

throwawaysleep 11 hours ago

There is a bigger one for research talent. Nothing really exists because until this year, people flowed the other way.

android521 7 hours ago

well, only if they are willing to lose 1/3 to 1/4 of US salary and willing to work on boring work.

keiferski 8 hours ago

The Nomad Capitalist guy is basically doing this.

scarface_74 8 hours ago

So exactly why would I want to go anywhere else where the compensation is much lower without the cost of living being lower and have higher taxes?

nativeit 7 hours ago

Better public services, free college, free healthcare, better urban planning, more robust protections for privacy, civil liberties, cleaner air and water, less caustic sociopolitical atmosphere, better quality-of-life metrics, better economic mobility, longer life expectancy, more cohesive communities, greater representation in the democratic process, more equitable pay standards, increased paid time off, literally any kind of standard maternal/paternal leave, better medical services, greater scores of general happiness and fulfillment, more stable economic policies, more stable legal frameworks, more like-minded cultural communities, increased freedom to travel to more diverse places with less costs and administrative burdens, stronger social safety nets, better retirement plans, nicer weather with fewer natural disasters, greater diversity in populations, expanded access to rich cultural experiences, more aesthetically pleasing architecture, greater access to "third places", more educated populations, less religious populations, less political polarization, and that's just the off-the-cuff obvious items. Some more subjective than others.

nativeit 7 hours ago

Lower violent crime rates, lower property crime rates, lower drug addiction rates, lower homeless rates, literally any kind of standard mental healthcare, better retirement facilities, subsidized childcare, subsidized geriatric care, less expensive medication, fewer guns, more EV infrastructure, literally any kind of broadly complete passenger rail network, even partially functional immigration systems, better K-12 education outcomes, lower housing costs, more progressive tax systems, and last (for this list) but absolutely not the least for this context: even a vague whiff of the sort of dynamism that made the Bay Area such an exciting place to live in the 1970s-90s, that has since been eroded into a self-satirizing caricature of itself, currently grappling with the loss of 0% interest rates by reverting to creative accounting, layoffs, rent-seeking from users and customers, shameless AI feature-bloat, and increasingly astounding levels of brazen monopolizing, corruption, and fraud.

Why, indeed?

mc3301 6 hours ago

Shhh... don't tell them about Japan. We have most of the above!

In all seriousness, the language barrier among other things makes it a pretty big challenge to permanently move here.

scrubs 1 hour ago

Well duh! You coulda just said Europe is about equality of outcomes through high taxes (nothing is "free").

That's not a passive-agressive insult. To the contrary Europe made its mind up and does it.

scarface_74 2 hours ago

And it’s “free” only because I would pay more in taxes and probably would take home a third of what I make now and I’m not even at FAANG (been there done that)…

And by stable economic policies do you mean “stagnant”? The EU couldn’t innovate its way out of wet paper bag.

We are talking about software developers. If you make and save enough money - you can create your own safety net.

And many countries in Europe are very much polarized if you are a Black person (https://fra.europa.eu/en/news/2023/black-people-eu-face-ever...)

And you 2/3rds consider themselves Christian - about the same as the US.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not rah rah rah America at all, I think the countries policies suck on a lot of levels and much of the population is overly religious, bigoted, and naive and cheering as their Dear Leader is taking away services they need just because he “owns the libs”. My still living parents grew up in the segregated South and my 6 foot 3 225 pound step son got crazy looks every time he stepped out of the house in our former home when we lived in what was a “sun down town” as recently as the mid 80s (yes this one https://youtu.be/WErjPmFulQ0?si=NN797D4aDsCGaItb).

But me personally and many of the people who post on HN and are in tech would be far worse off in any other country than here.

scrubs 1 hour ago

"Don’t get me wrong, I’m not rah rah rah America at all, I think the countries policies suck on a lot of levels"

The most direct, biting, focused, insightful criticism on America? Americans via familiarity breeds contempt.

Europe has a fundamentally different approach than does America.

Let me work this the other way as a half serious half not serious question to show the possible impasse to making the jump into the other's perspective: how did the bureaucrats in Brussels become so powerful and unbeatable that the UK wanted out?

palata 6 minutes ago

> how did the bureaucrats in Brussels become so powerful and unbeatable that the UK wanted out?

I don't understand what point you are trying to make, but Brexit was accepted thanks to a lot of misconceptions and downright lies from pro-Brexit politicians. Pretty sure it wouldn't be accepted today, and pretty sure that many voters have come to regret voting for it.

palata 8 minutes ago

> And it’s “free” only because I would pay more in taxes

I see it like this: it's a spectrum. At one end of it, you have the idealistic communism: "we all get the same treatment" (I know, it's more complicated than that). Which means that you definitely won't be homeless with no perspective, but you won't be mega rich. At the other end, you could have no government and let people pay for everything. No roads, no schools. The mega rich would be fine: they would build their own private roads where it matters, move with a helicopter, and their children anyway will have some kind of private teacher. But the average population is worse off, and the poor even worse.

If you go too much towards that second end (all for the mega rich), you risk a "revolution": if enough people have nothing to lose, they will hunt down the mega rich. Everybody loses.

Obviously, if you are part of the population that is today privileged, you may be happy with an unequal society (because you benefit from it). So if your goal is to be in a better situation than most of the population, and if you can achieve that, then you're better off in the US. Now not everyone is like that. Some people like it if the average population lives better, eats better, is better educated, better informed, less polarised, ... And in that sense, the US is not remotely at the top of the list.

Yes, I pay more taxes than I would if I was in the US, where I could create my own safety net. But that's a feature, not a bug. If I earn more than the average person, I'm happy to contribute more to the public infrastructure, because I can.

> And many countries in Europe are very much polarized if you are a Black person

Of course there is racism everywhere, not sure what you were expecting when you searched for that link. But I'm pretty sure it's worse in the US.

> And you 2/3rds consider themselves Christian - about the same as the US.

It's not about that, again. You can consider yourself a Christian and not be anti-abortion, for instance. Again, the US is worse than many European countries in many regards there.

> I think the countries policies suck on a lot of levels and much of the population is overly religious, bigoted, and naive and cheering as their Dear Leader is taking away services they need just because he “owns the libs”.

For many people, that's enough of a reason to prefer other countries.

> And by stable economic policies do you mean “stagnant”? The EU couldn’t innovate its way out of wet paper bag.

This is something where most Americans are simply ignorant. Do you know why the US economy is better? Access to fossil fuels. When you have more energy, you have more money and you can "innovate" more.

But "innovation" is not representative of quality of life. The US "innovates" with a lot of bullshit, or downright destructive technology. As long as is makes money, it's considered that it is good for society in the US. In Europe it's different (whether it's a choice or not, it does not matter). Europe does a lot of great things that contribute to society. If it improves society but doesn't print money, usually it stays in Europe. If the innovation has the potential to print money, usually it gets bought by the US (under some form, being just by having VC money available for that kind of technology).

Before saying "we in America invented all the modern technology", you should inform yourself a tiny bit, and realise that actually, a lot of it comes from the rest of the world. America is really good at making money in an unequal society (meaning that those innovations actually serve making the rich richer and the poor poorer).

Not saying that you should hate the US and love the rest of the world. What I'm trying to say is that many Americans believe that the US is the best country in the world, and more importantly that the rest of the world believes it as well. And that is very wrong: the American lifestyle is not desirable for a whole lot of people. Maybe it used to be in the last century, but not anymore. Not at all.