139 points by p-s-v 2 days ago | 83 comments
I'm a bit of a knife steel geek and got tired of juggling tabs to compare stats. So, I built this tool: https://new.knife.day/blog/knife-steel-comparisons/all
It lets you pick steels (like the ones in the screenshot) and see a radar chart comparing their edge retention, toughness, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening on a simple 1-10 scale.
It's already been super handy for me, and I thought fellow knife/metallurgy enthusiasts here might find it useful too.
Would love to hear your thoughts or any steel requests!
Cheers!
kurthr 2 days ago
I guess what confuses me most is that heat treatment/hardening seem crucial to understanding how a knife is going to perform, but that seems left out. It's even possible to have a great treatment on a blank and screw it up (overheat) when doing the initial edge shaping. Furthermore, the sharpening angle of a blade edge seems to greatly affect edge retention especially for softer steels. It would be great to know what angles different (properly hardened) steels could reasonably support. That's something the user can control after purchase.
LarsAlereon 2 days ago
Zak 2 days ago
LooseMarmoset 2 days ago
Also, 440 has a number of grades.
Cool tool!
EDIT: It might also be interesting to point out the manganese levels, and whether the steel is a deep- or shallow-hardening steel. Those factors help indicate whether the steel will form a hamon or not.
p-s-v 2 days ago
thanks for the feedback
globular-toast 2 days ago
Zak 2 days ago
It's not in OP's tool, but this article[1] by metallurgist Larrin Thomas includes it. His ratings are 2.5 for toughness, 2.5 for wear resistance, and 8 for corrosion resistance. It is a bad steel for any kind of knife and especially bad at Wüsthof's prices.
[0] https://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=X50CrMoV...
[1] https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10/19/knife-steels-rated-by...
williadc 2 days ago
eichin 2 days ago
(Ah, the raw data is available https://github.com/seattleultrasonics/Quantified-Knife-Proje... has a "Blades" tab which might be enough to correlate.)
p-s-v 2 days ago
ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 2 days ago
zahlman 1 day ago
Yeah, it's padded out to an absurd degree in the formulaic way that it does.
Too 1 day ago
"In this comprehensive guide, we compare metal A vs metal B" with 100s of similar articles for every unique permutation of metals. Yeah right someone did that comparision... "Best pocket knife", "Best filet knife", Best Chef knife", bla blabla
abcd_f 2 days ago
p-s-v 22 hours ago
SideburnsOfDoom 1 day ago
And also the non-stainless Carbon steels.
reconnecting 2 days ago
I really like it because of the high-carbon steel, but I have no idea what specific type of steel was used, as I don't see much of such steel these days.
Onavo 2 days ago
dehrmann 2 days ago
bobmcnamara 2 days ago
hunter-gatherer 2 days ago
2 days ago
keisborg 2 days ago
It would be nice with an example on how knife steel properties work. I assume there are balanced tradeoffs.
Zak 2 days ago
Being soft or brittle can also make forming a sharp edge difficult, requiring very light pressure in the final phases of sharpening to remove or avoid creating a burr in the case of softness, and to avoid chipping in the case of brittleness.
Of course all of these properties are affected by the heat treatment, which is often more important to the performance of the knife than the composition of the steel.
Brian_K_White 1 day ago
The point of a graph like that in this case is merely so that you can choose which aspects you need for a given application.
You decide which aspects you can live without to get the ones you can not live without, for a given application. Because it's either that or have a dull knife, or a broken knife, or a rusty knife, etc.
My favorite kitchen knife is tough and sharp but rusts easily. It's ok since it doesn't live in a tackle box on a boat, or in my leatherman.
At best you can have "good all-season tire" which at least doesn't completely suck to the point of failuire in any dimension but doesn't excell in any either.
p-s-v 2 days ago
A harder blade is more brittle (less tough) and keeps its edge longer... but is also more difficult to sharpen once it gets dull.... generally speaking.
johnisgood 1 day ago
I would probably be interested in a knife that has high corrosion resistance, toughness, and edge retention; ease of sharpening might not be that much of a concern, personally, but correct me if I am wrong and it actually matters despite toughness.
cullenking 2 days ago
bberenberg 2 days ago
smiley1437 2 days ago
H1
H2
CPM Magnacut
Sandvik 12C27
Interestingly they are all weak on Edge Retention.
shawn_w 2 days ago
The data this site is using really seems questionable.
Zak 2 days ago
CATRA testing by Magnacut's creator[0] suggests D2, 3V, VG10, and 440C should have a lower rating than Magnacut for edge retention, while Elmax, M2, and Cruwear should be the same. 5 probably is a reasonable rating for Magnacut though when Maxamet is 10.
[0] https://i2.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/202...
shawn_w 2 days ago
Zak 1 day ago
p-s-v 2 days ago
williadc 2 days ago
p-s-v 22 hours ago
out-of-ideas 2 days ago
2 days ago
adamgordonbell 2 days ago
Super sharp but very brittle.
owenversteeg 2 days ago
I have a lot of knives (and have made my own) and I love ceramic knives. For those that don't know, ceramic knives are sintered zirconium dioxide; they are super sharp and retain sharpness far better than steel, but are brittle and not practical to resharpen. As a result your average knife enthusiast tries them, sees that they chip easily and can't be fixed, and condemn them as throwaway garbage.
The secret is to use them for an application where they'll never hit something hard or rough. For example, using them where they might hit metal or bone, they'll eventually chip - possibly into your food! Or using them on a cutting board, they'll dull, although slower than steel. But use them on soft objects only and they'll last virtually forever.
They are very useful for cutting cardboard boxes open, or tape, or plastic. You can use the same ceramic knife for 1000+ cardboard boxes and it will cut like a hot knife in butter, while the same steel knife would need to be resharpened several times for the same smoothness.
Oh, and they are non-browning for food like apples or avocados, which is nice. The browning you see in cut foods is caused partly by polyphenol oxidase, an enzyme that can be activated by iron and other metals. Steel knives shed tiny amounts of iron into food as they cut, so if you use a ceramic knife, your food will look fresher for longer.
jofer 2 days ago
They're great for minimizing oxidation along cuts. E.g. cutting iceberg lettuce and avoiding having the edges turn brown. They're also very lightweight, which is nice for some things, while being bad for others. I'd never use them the way I do my workhorse chef's knife, but there are certainly tasks I prefer them for. Dicing lots of hot peppers comes to mind, oddly enough, as does some very precise and relatively tedious knifework like making very even matchstick cuts for carrots/radishes/etc (the large one has a very wide blade, which is great for this, and is lightweight enough to reduce fatigue).
Overall, I can see why folks like them. It's not really the "no need to sharpen" point. It's more the "lightweight and very thin" part, along with a non-oxidizing edge.
I'm still kind of opposed on principle, I suppose, but I do use the set we were gifted fairly often, despite having some very nice steel cutlery that I'm very fond of. I can't blame anyone for buying them now that they're priced more reasonably than they used to be.
metalman 2 days ago
eichin 2 days ago
virtue3 2 days ago
And you can sharpen all your paring knives etc.
p-s-v 2 days ago
MrBuddyCasino 2 days ago
adamgordonbell 2 days ago
In my vague home use, brittleness leading to chipping is more of an issue.
loloquwowndueo 2 days ago
Also - paring knife, not pairing knife.
L29Ah 2 days ago
dvh 2 days ago
nntwozz 2 days ago
HeartofCPU 1 day ago
xvector 1 day ago
Would you be able to add Damacore DC18N?
whalesalad 2 days ago
I left it on the bed cover of my truck the other day while unboxing some towing equipment in a parking lot and took off accidentally.
Looked at Amazon to replace it and they’re going for $200+ now. Is this just Amazon tax? Tarrifs? Something else? No way in hell I paid that for it initially. It was probably $50! It’s listed at $160 on their website right now.
Why?!?! It’s a simple plastic body and a small piece of steel. Make this make sense.
arh68 1 day ago
My guess is collectors that'll buy at almost any price. Some knives from the '80s that used to cost $25 are simply eye-watering today (well past 10x).
Zak 2 days ago
Sharpness is a product of sharpening, which should be done regularly for good results.
Benchmade's pricing is based on irrational customers being willing to pay premium prices for knives that really aren't competitive anymore.
If you want a replacement knife that's very similar for a more reasonable price, consider the crossbar lock version of the Vosteed Raccoon.
globular-toast 2 days ago
How often? I have a Japanese santoku knife made of VG10 and I really like it when I get it razor sharp. But is it normal that it loses that after a few weeks? Do I really need to keep sharpening on a whetstone that often? I cut vegetables almost every single day.
Zak 2 days ago
It's not necessary to use a whetstone that often though. My preference is a leather strop with a fine (under 1 micron; I use 0.25) diamond paste on it, and it usually only takes a few strokes (around five) per side to restore my gyuto to performance I'm happy with. The duller I let it get, the more time it takes to restore.
shawn_w 2 days ago
jerrac 2 days ago
shawn_w 1 day ago
Benchmade used to make a variant of their Griptilian that he designed (the "Ritter Grip", and when they discontinued it, Hogue stepped up (proceeds go to support Ritter's https://kniferights.org/ organization)
whalesalad 19 hours ago
zikduruqe 2 days ago
It used to be knowledge based survival skills, but today it is all gear based survival skills. Prices have gone crazy.
antisthenes 2 days ago
p-s-v 1 day ago
metalman 2 days ago
Retr0id 2 days ago
I think the AI intended for you to edit out this part?
loloquwowndueo 2 days ago
FieryTransition 2 days ago
Retr0id 2 days ago
"The Spyderco Paramilitary 2 is a tactical knife with a 3.44 inch blade. The knife is made in USA of CPM S35VN steel."
It's a real knife, and the blade length checks out (to two significant figures), but the manufacturer spec sheet says S45VN steel. Also the actual name is "Para Military® 2".
Zak 2 days ago
https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C81GBNBK2/Para-Mili...
p-s-v 2 days ago
Retr0id 2 days ago
shawn_w 2 days ago
p-s-v 2 days ago
Retr0id 2 days ago
Koshcheiushko 2 days ago
p-s-v 2 days ago
Retr0id 2 days ago
p-s-v 2 days ago
dang 2 days ago
malablaster 1 day ago
p-s-v 1 day ago
malablaster 3 hours ago