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Reading RSS content is a skilled activity

84 points by d0liver 14 hours ago | 44 comments

bsnnkv 11 hours ago

> And that's also where the magic lies because it's that very process of engaging with content and deciding whether or not it has value to you that makes using an RSS reader a better experience and one where you own your attention.

Back when RSS was more popular, the tyranny of never-ending backlogs was a topic that was discussed somewhat regularly, but it gets glossed over a little these days since RSS talk is naturally enclosed within a layer of nostalgia

For a few years now my approach has basically been "read it now or read it never" - this means that my RSS feeds are typically empty and I never save anything to "read it later" queues

If it's something I'm supposed to read, it'll probably be resurfaced one way or another (or maybe it won't, and that's fine too) at a later time when I'm immediately ready to pick up what is being put down

safety1st 9 hours ago

RSS came of age in a very different time, when the world of computing was more, for lack of a better term, workstation-centric. People wanted RSS clients that were similar to email clients, or maybe even integrated directly into the email client, and they had this idea that they should 'catch up' on everything that was published since their last session, almost like it was a job.

Nowadays people have an implicit understanding that the net is vast and infinite, it's beyond the ability of one man to fully catch up, and you're just tuning into a slice of the data stream.

RSS clients never really departed from their roots of showing reverse chronological lists of all the posts, but this UI loses usefulness when the data stream gets too big. Commercial social media saw an opportunity and decided to make the algorithm that arranges the feed totally opaque - with that achieved, they proceeded to auction off each spot in it and get rich. Even worse than the reverse chronological firehose.

What we lack is a presentation that is actually good! I don't have the answer. One thing I want to experiment with, though, is digests. I use a straight reverse chronological UI that aggregates all my items in all my feeds. One thing I noticed is that this ends up wildly biased toward feeds that have lots of posts, like news aggregator websites, or Reddit. Anyone who's foolish enough to work hard and produce wonderful long form content with less frequency, gets lost in the firehose, which may tell us a lot about how the collapse-in-progress of our civilization got started. I have no idea how to solve this and do better than the UIs and algorithms that rule the world today. I do have it on my todo list to try a digest style UI - like perhaps each website gets one entry per day in my feed, and if they made multiple posts on that day, those are represented as multiple small title links in a compact format. Whereas a less frequent poster might even get an excerpt along with their title or something.

rambambram 5 hours ago

I did something like this with my reader:

- Only subscribed to lots of niche news and small websites (most of my list has the category 'dev blog' attached to it, so that's all of you guys/girls with a blog).

- Only get posts when I click, basically no automatic hoarding in the background (except for my Newspaper functionality, which does a little bit of background request for important feeds that I manually selected).

- Just pick the last post from a randomly selected feed. This really gets me going from reading about Linux, to reading about the best way to bake a cake, to reading about interior design, to reading about bikepacking... all in one sit.

- Or only pick from randomly selected feeds with a certain category, when I'm in the mood for a specific kind of news. For example, I want to know new videos on selected Youtube channels, or i only want to see posts with a picture attached (I call it 'photo feeds').

frosted-flakes 8 hours ago

In my opinion the answer is curation. If you're getting so many magazines and newspapers in the post that you can't read them all, the answer isn't to hire someone to cut out random pages for you to read (oh, why are they all adverts?), the answer is to stop subscribing to so many publications.

I never fail to read all of my social media feeds and email messages, because I actively cancel subscriptions to stuff that I don't have time to read. After all, it's entertainment/casual education, not mandatory learning.

ghaff 7 hours ago

Most people never read most of the magazines and newspapers they got cover to cover. I certainly read a fairly small percentage of the New York Times.

vaylian 7 hours ago

> firehose

This is what the modern information space feels like in one word. It's impossible to read everything. But at the same time, it's not necessary to read everything.

> What we lack is a presentation that is actually good! I don't have the answer. One thing I want to experiment with, though, is digests.

Do you have a RSS feed that I can subscribe to so that I get notified when you publish your experiment?

safety1st 5 hours ago

I've never actually published any of the code I use to view my RSS feeds. This question comes up from time to time when I discuss the subject though! Maybe I will one of these days.

ghaff 7 hours ago

Someone I know once described Twitter as being a river that you dipped into when you had the time and the interest. I think RSS was similar but, as you say, the clients had a somewhat different model. You could get around by having a priority category or something like that.

AStonesThrow 3 hours ago

https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/tech/TwitterBreakin...

> I need to treat it as a stream that I dip my toe into every so often

soapdog 4 hours ago

There are a couple readers that avoid that by providing a calmer experience without a firehose and without background fetching.

https://blogcat.org (I made this one)

https://fraidyc.at (this is the inspiration for many calm readers)

https://cblgh.itch.io/rad-reader (multiplatform and super calm)

pityJuke 3 hours ago

Ended up abandoning Fraidycat after it atrophied (a number of the integrations that weren't plain RSS, like YouTube/Twitch, didn't work well, it ended up choking my browser, and then stopped working entirely)... did not know there were so many spiritual successors. Thanks!

Now... if anyone knows of an iOS equivalent, that'd be awesome.

setopt 5 hours ago

It depends what you use it for. I’m a researcher and use it to follow scientific literature (relevant arXiv sections and scientific journals, as well as funding agency announcements), and keeping an eye on what’s up is then arguably part of the job.

If you use it for general news and blogs, that’s of course different. I completely agree with letting the FOMO go.

rambambram 6 hours ago

It takes effort indeed. Just as putting up a little homepage, writing articles, essays or short tidbits, and publishing an RSS feed for that.

What I do with my self-built reader (link in bio) to have it not function as a newsfeed from regular social media, is to only get the latest posts from randomly selected feeds. I don't need all of the unread posts from all of the sources (there are 1415 now in my list) every time. This is also nicer for the publishers (that may be you, fellow HNer!), since every request to your feed is actually read.

In the beginning of using my own reader I was really craving the dopamine shot from regular social media, it literally took me two years to get used to my self-inflicted info diet. Now it's really a calm blessing, especially because I read stuff posted by yet another internet fellow who has a blog. Way more human.

Using RSS is different and should be different. Wanting RSS and the social open web, and then transforming it to regular social media with notifications and a firehose of news is the same as building a new barebones electric pickup truck and then wanting it to connect to an app.

simonw 12 hours ago

I don't think this is just about RSS:

> So, how do we decide and filter for ourselves? My favored approach is fairly old fashioned: Chains of trust. We start by finding someone whose judgement we trust and subscribing to their feed, and then we find out who they trust and subscribe to their feed, and so on. Part of the judgement that we're looking for in these trustees is not simply whether or not content is accurate but whether or not it is worth our attention.

This goes for any form of social media beyond just blogs. Find people who have good taste, good judgement and demonstrate their credibility in the subjects that matter to you. Collect those people - follow them on social media, hang out with them on Discord, attend events that they go to, subscribe to their blogs and their newsletters, read their papers (for academia), pay attention to the people THEY respect.

Repeat that a bunch of times and you can become incredibly well informed on almost any topic.

mbanerjeepalmer 4 hours ago

People here seem to fall into two camps:

(A) Studiously prune your feeds like a bonsai. As the author suggest, follow the chain of trust to a small number of voices (for me, something like Stratechery, Simon Willison, Inner Ring).

(B) Realise that RSS is another form of 'tyranny', this time at the hands of the publisher instead of the platform, where the composition of your feeds, and therefore what uses your attention, doesn't correlate highly with what matters to you.

I can feel the pickaxes being unsheathed as I type this but...I have reason to believe my (and others') LLM/embeddings-driven products are a good solution.

Position (A) isn't tenable if FOMO matters. Paraphrasing another comment here: 'Following arXiv is part of the job'.

So let's say you adopt position (B). You recognise that everything that matters to you is distributed across some set of feeds. But only a small proportion of the total material in those feeds matters to you. If you can articulate what matters then you can let an LLM or embeddings model use their attention, instead of yours, on the low-relevance items by filtering them out.

Some options:

- https;//scour.ing

- https://feeds.fun

- https://zacusca.net (disclosure: mine, and still pretty janky)

yapyap 2 hours ago

(I think) the thing is that you are not meant to get served content that is specifically for you. (insert this hole was made for me img) [1]) You get someone’s stream of content and you have to decide whether you are okay with the friction between what they are serving and yourself or if you are not and then unsubscribing.

This is the same reason why AI generated music is soulless and isn’t liked. If music can be made especially for you in milliseconds to soothe your mood or to suit your situation it isn’t art, it’s entertainment slop you’re consuming. Art and things created by other people doesn’t have to pander to you, it expresses something they made and you are allowed to observe or interact with it. What caused the creator to create it is what gives it meaning, when you start having to arbitrage your creations with the consumer (to become more appealing for more people) that’s when you start losing credibility and the start of selling out.

A few of the most heinous examples of people selling their dignity for ‘the algorithm’ to recommend their stuff to more consumers are those who impact their content for retention. An easy one is Mr. Beast, entire videos are focused solely around retention. If the team behind that channel finds something that gets them more appeal to their consumerbase they will implement or pivot towards it like there is no tomorrow.

Another scathing example is Jay Z, who - in Moment of Clarity - rapped

“ I dumb down for my audience and double my dollars They criticize me for it, yet they all yell "holla" If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be lyrically Talib Kweli Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense But I did 5 mill' – I ain't been rhyming like Common since (Woo!)”

admitting he has compromised his lyrical integrity for money and influence long before “the algorithm” was the all influential thing.

I guess when it comes down to it, it’s easier to make it in the world without integrity, but that definition of making it is more hollow.

1. https://i.imgflip.com/2uyz7f.png

skydhash 23 minutes ago

> Art and things created by other people doesn’t have to pander to you, it expresses something they made and you are allowed to observe or interact with it.

And that's why you need to curate as it's an expression of your choice. Both by choosing which feeds to follow and which articles to read. Social media is like being in a public square alone while everyone is shouting at you while feeds are more like being in a gathering. In the latter, everyone is already vetted so you just skip from one interesting conversation to another while recognizing keeping track of everything is pointless.