131 points by todsacerdoti 2 months ago | 64 comments
jorvi 2 months ago
Hearing has a few quirks too:
- When we measure sound pressure, we measure it in log (so, every 3dB is a doubling in sound pressure), but our hearing perceives this as a linear scale. If you make a linear volume slide, the upper part will seem as if it barely does anything.
- The lower the volume, the less perceivable upper and lower ranges are compared to the midrange. This is what "loudness" intends to fix, although poor implementations have made many people assume it is a V-curve button. A proper loudness implementation will lessen its impact as volume increases, completely petering off somewhere around 33% of maximum volume.
- For the most "natural" perceived sound, you don't try to get as flat a frequency response as possible but instead aim for a Harman curve.
- Bass frequencies (<110Hz, depending on who you ask) are omnidirectional, which means we cannot accurately perceive which direction the sound is coming from. Subwoofers exploit this fact, making it seem as if deep rich bass is coming from your puny soundbar and not the sub hidden behind the couch :).
mrob 2 months ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power,_root-power,_and_field_q...
Consider a loudspeaker playing a constant-frequency sine wave. Sound pressure is proportional to the excursion of the cone. To increase sound pressure, the excursion has to increase, and because frequency is fixed the cone will have to move faster. If it's covering twice the distance in the same time interval it has to move twice as fast. Kinetic energy is proportional to the square of velocity, so doubling the sound pressure requires four times the power, and doubling the power only gets you sqrt(2) times the sound pressure.
Human loudness perception generally requires greater than 6dB increase to sound twice as loud. This depends on both frequency and absolute level as you mentioned, with about 10dB increase needed to double perceived loudness at 1kHz and moderate level.
lieks 2 months ago
Pitch perception is also logarithmic; an octave in music is a 2x ratio.
Memory is sort of logarithmic; you'd say a thing happened 1-2 days ago or 1-2 years ago, but not 340-341 days ago.
Same with age; someone being 10 years older than you is a much bigger deal when you're 10 than when you're 80.
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2 months ago
> Stevens' power law is an empirical relationship in psychophysics between an increased intensity or strength in a physical stimulus and the perceived magnitude increase in the sensation created by the stimulus
andrewla 2 months ago
I now have to read up on the Harman curve because I'm curious about this and it has a direct practical application.
ttoinou 2 months ago
When we measure sound pressure, we measure it in log (so, every 3dB is a doubling in sound pressure), but our hearing perceives this as a linear scale
Its the other way around : we perceive logarithmically so we created the logarithmic decibel scaleAnimats 2 months ago
This has issues. When you go from a dark space to a bright space, the eye's iris stops down. But not instantaneously. It takes a second or two. This can be simulated. Cyberpunk 2077 does this. Go from a dark place in the game to bright sunlight and, for a moment, the screen becomes blinding, then adjusts.
In the other direction, go into a dark space, and it's dark at first, then seems to lighten up after a while. Dark adaptation is slower then light adaptation.
Tone mapping is not just an intensity adjustment. It has to compensate for the color space intensity problems the OP mentions. Human eyes are not equally sensitive to the primary colors.
Some visually impaired people hate this kind of adjustment, it turns out.
Here's a clip from Cyberpunk 2077.[2] Watch what happens to screen brightness as the car goes into the tunnel and then emerges into daylight.
TeMPOraL 2 months ago
This looks nothing like actual Cyberpunk 2077. It looks actually realistic - unlike the base game itself where, just like in about every other game since "Physically Based Rendering" became a thing, everything looks like it's made of painted plastic.
Per the video description, this version of C2077 is modded up to its eyeballs. I'm very interested in those mods now, because it's the first time I ever saw someone managed to get materials in a game look somewhat realistic.
Animats 2 months ago
Auto paint looks great. They probably have a clearcoat layer. Skin still looks bad, though. I suspect that Cyberpunk 2077 lacks a subsurface scattering layer in the content. Is that correct? If there's no info there, rendering mods can't improve on it. It's worth thinking about using some Midjourney type system to generate subsurface scattering layers for existing models and make skin look better.
I've used something called "Deep Bump", which uses machine learning to generate normals for flat images. It's great for brick and stone, OK for bark, poor for plants. That probably reflects the training set, and could be improved.
myfonj 2 months ago
tshaddox 2 months ago
Or, very famously 20 years ago in Half-Life 2: Lost Coast, which was released as a tech demo for HDR rendering.
fredgrott 2 months ago
refulgentis 2 months ago
kookamamie 2 months ago
kpil 2 months ago
refulgentis 2 months ago
andrewla 2 months ago
Conscat 2 months ago
weinzierl 2 months ago
OSA-UCS takes the Helmholtz-Kohlrausch effect into consideration.
cccbbbaaa 2 months ago
mattdesl 2 months ago
cccbbbaaa 2 months ago
Kleptine 2 months ago
balou23 2 months ago
TL;DR: Oklab is pretty simple, but is already pretty nice as a perceptually uniform color space. Darktable UCS takes Oklab and tries to reduce the residual error.
Feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong
weinzierl 2 months ago
"After trying to fix Oklab for a dozen of hours, it appeared that the numerical issues it raises are grounded into design constraints we don’t need for the current task. And so do most of the other perceptual spaces.
[..]
So we could fit an Lch model directly from Munsell hue-value-chroma dataset, without going through LMS space and without even tilting the lightness plane. Doing so, we will not try to model the physiology of vision, but approach the problem as a geometric space distortion where the Munsell hues and the saturations (as a ratio of chromas / values) can be predicted by a 1D mapping from the hues, chromas and lightnesses of forming the principal dimensions of the model.
This model will need to be invertible. We will try to fit brightness data to derivate correlates of perceptual brightness accounting for the Helmholtz-Kohlrausch effect. Using the brightness and saturation correlates, we will rewrite our image saturation algorithm in terms of perceptually-even operators."
They obviously took a lot from Oklab but it seems to me they did more than just modifying it to reduce the residual error. But again, I just skimmed and I can be completly wrong.