remix logo

Hacker Remix

Sutton Hoo and Syria: Anglo-Saxons who served in the Byzantine army?

40 points by benbreen 6 days ago | 22 comments

davidw 3 days ago

Much later, but this English guy went to Italy as a mercenary and spent much of his life there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hawkwood

As someone who lived in Italy myself, although didn't do any stabbing or slashing during my time there, I thought it was an interesting story.

LeftHandPath 3 days ago

What an interesting life to have lived.

> Evidence of his craft was seen in his tactics, which included feigned retreats, ambushes and the use of false information.

Reminds me of "Intelligence in War" by Keegan, which discussed the use of such strategies, mostly in naval battles, from antiquity to the modern era.

> In the 30 years that he served as a captain, Hawkwood's earnings ranged between 6,000 and 80,000 florins annually (in comparison, a skilled Florentine craftsman at the same time earned 30 florins a year).

Quite the pay for a soldier, even if a mercenary!

ForOldHack 3 days ago

I bet he couldn't even paint. Michelangelo was paid 80,000 Florins a year to paint the Sistine Chapel, and he had to buy his own supplies, and hire his own workers... Something about showing them heaven, vs sending them there....

rgblambda 3 days ago

Was the pay meant to cover the troops under his command, as opposed to his personal pay?

CRConrad 2 days ago

As I understand it, those were gross payments -- ~"for John Hawkwood and his company of merrie men" -- and he paid his men out of that.

But some of their compensation probably also came from whatever they were allowed to loot when they took a city -- which of course gave commanders an incentive to let their men loot a lot, so they'd be happy with that and not demand as much regular pay out of the commander's gross fee from his employer.

recursivecaveat 3 days ago

There were a lot of these guys around that time. England imported a ton of soldiers into France for the Hundred Years War, then just didn't take them back home when they signed a treaty, so they all took up residence as mercenaries, brigands, and extortionists basically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_company In a feudal era where power structures were less centralized and more about personal relationships, it was easier to smoothly transition between a 'proper' noble and somebody who 'just' owned a fort and a bunch of soldiers to collect rent with, and there was always somebody willing to pay to make you their neighbor's problem.

euroderf 2 days ago

OT: I've read here & there that also Finns were recruited by Byzantium. "Varangians." A rep for being gung-ho. Any pointers appreciated.

flohofwoe 2 days ago

You mean the Varangian Guard, personal security detail of the Emperor?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangian_Guard

TL;DR: in the beginning mainly Kievan Rus and Norse (but apparently no Finns), later mainly Anglo-Saxons.

euroderf 1 day ago

I can't now find the webpage that orignially proposed this, but FWIW just now I found this: https://peacecountry0.tripod.com/earlyfin.htm#vara

Lost in the mists of history. A mistory.

emmelaich 3 days ago

The (fringe) idea that Muhammad was partly Anglo-Saxon or some sort of northerner always tickled me. He was tall, reddish hair, light skinned.

These dates sort of line up.

wahern 3 days ago

Red hair appears to have originated in Central Asia. Blue eyes and blonde hair likewise also originated in Central Asia or the Middle East (but not necessarily the same places). All of these phenotypes used to be more widespread in Eurasia and North Africa. Today they're associated with Northern Europe because of the very high prevalence, but you can still find clusters of populations elsewhere with significant prevalence, and (because of their recessiveishness--it's complicated) it's not uncommon for them to pop up randomly in populations we today would never associate with those phenotypes.

Blonde hair also emerged independently in the Indo-Pacific where today you can find it among some populations in Oceania with people who have very dark skin and tightly curled hair.

Before the most recent waves of migration from Central Asia and the Middle East into Europe over the past several millennia, "native" Europeans are believed to have had very dark hair and somewhat darker skin, similar to what we might associate with some modern day Mediterranean populations.

Tor3 2 days ago

Blue eyes and blonde hair wasn't connected historically (unlike today). The pre-Yamnaya Europeans (hunter gatherers) tended to be dark haired with blue eyes. Blonde hair and brighter skin came from the east then.

https://www.sci.news/genetics/science-european-hunter-gather... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_hunter-gatherer

tolerance 3 days ago

If you’re interested in an accurate description of the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم look into a translation of “Shama’il Tirmidhi”, you’ll only have to read the first chapter or so.

ipnon 3 days ago

I have nothing to add to this except that the single Unicode character for PBUH looks cool: ﷺ

ggm 6 days ago

I think it's interesting they argue for the people moving, and bringing goods back over trade. I would have said there's a case for trade. Objects move around, acrue value by distance from source. Obviously, people are valuable too and I guess "I can't pay you but the loot is rich" might apply too.