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Picasso was suspected of stealing the 'Mona Lisa'

90 points by bookofjoe 2 weeks ago | 56 comments

bookofjoe 2 weeks ago

kmoser 1 week ago

> Both men start crying like little boys, and change their stories so many times that the magistrate quickly realizes that they have nothing to do with the stolen painting. Both are soon released.

I would have expected that behavior to make them seem guilty enough to warrant holding them until their stories are thoroughly examined.

NikkiA 5 days ago

Presumably there was more than the few days that the comic hints at, between the theft and them getting caught, thus the magistrate probably thought they were so terrible at being deceptful or keeping a story straight, that there was no way they'd not have been caught the same day as the theft.

Or to put it another way, it was a different, simpler time.

cjs_ac 1 week ago

Shakespearean actor, mountaineer and explorer BRIAN BLESSED has a brilliant story about the time, as a young boy, he met Picasso and narrowly avoided saving his family from poverty: https://youtu.be/ZH4cWoetw4s?si=CjLg5P5MDrlqNFpU&t=1352

lysace 1 week ago

The part where Pablo Picasso and Guillaume Apolliniare attempt to throw the ancient sculptures they have stolen from the Louvre into the Seine because they are scared of getting caught stealing them...

After learning of this, I now value Pablo Picasso (the person) somewhat differently. He was ~26 in 1907. Not a kid.

This probably explains why e.g. I had never heard of this before: https://jacobin.com/2023/06/pablo-picasso-brooklyn-museum-ga...

pbhjpbhj 1 week ago

"great artists steal" (attributed to Picasso) after all!

lysace 1 week ago

Great point.

Of course, mere copying is vastly different from copying plus theft and attempted burying/hiding of the original [inspiration].

mlyle 1 week ago

> The part where Pablo Picasso and Guillaume Apolliniare attempt to throw the ancient sculptures they have stolen from the Louvre into the Seine because they are scared of getting caught stealing them...

Planning to do something bad and not following through is not the same thing as doing the bad thing.

(What mixture of it was conscience, and what mixture was fear of getting caught?)

lysace 1 week ago

No, not planning; attempting but failing. You didn't look at all of the eh, article.

mlyle 1 week ago

I did look at the "article", and I've looked at the way the event has been described in other sources. I double checked before I responded to you, too.

In the end, we'll never know why they didn't dump the suitcase in the river.

> > (What mixture of it was conscience, and what mixture was fear of getting caught?)

tanseydavid 1 week ago

"They decide to put the sculptures in a suitcase and drop it in the Seine. *They wander the streets all night but never find the right moment to do so*."

mlyle 1 week ago

What does "never find the right moment to do so" mean?

As posited above: because of conscience?

Because of fear of getting caught dropping a suitcase?

And, of course, I suggest one go to more primary sources. The only one we really have is Fernande Olivier, who said (translation):

> After a hastily swallowed dinner and a long evening’s wait, they set out on foot around midnight with the suitcase; at two in the morning they were back, worn out and still carrying the suitcase with the statues inside.

> They had wandered the streets never finding the right moment, never daring to get rid of the suitcase. They thought they were being followed and conjured up in imagination a thou­ sand possibilities. . . . Although I shared their fears, I had been watching them rather closely that night. I am sure that perhaps involuntarily they had been play-acting a little: to such a point that, while waiting for “the moment of the crime,” although neither of them knew how, they had pretended to play cards—doubtless in imitation of certain bandits they had read about. In the end Apollinaire spent the night at Picasso’s and went the next morn­ ing to Paris-Journal, where he turned in the undesirable statues under a pledge of secrecy.

I read in all of these sources a lot of ambiguity about why they didn't. You find certainty, perhaps-- I don't.

krisoft 1 week ago

> You find certainty, perhaps

I don’t think that’s the case, at least for me.

It is more that they even thought this is an okay thing to do makes them moraly suspect in my eyes. Doesn’t matter if they went through with it or not. Doesn’t matter why they haven’t gone through with it either.

They should have told the person offering to steal a statue that he shouldn’t. And when he shows up with a statue they should have told him that he should bring it back or they are calling the police. And when he brought the second statue they should have called the police instead of paying for it. And then every single day the statue was on his mantle piece he should have returned it safely. Same as when things got too hot for them. Instead they decided to destroy them.

These are all facts which put them in rather bad light. By that point they were already miles deep into bad decisions. And, none of them even asked “what if we just leave this suitcase with a sign which says ‘to the police’?” But somehow i should care weather they didn’t go through with destroying the statues out of cowardice or consciousness? Even if it is consciousness it is too little too late for me.

mlyle 7 days ago

> It is more that they even thought this is an okay thing to do makes them moraly suspect in my eyes.

Maybe you don't seriously consider doing really bad things, and even take steps playing with the idea of doing them. I definitely have, especially when I was younger.

> They should have told the person offering to steal a statue that he shouldn’t. And when he shows up with a statue they should have told him that he should bring it back or they are calling the police. And when he brought the second statue they should have called the police instead of paying for it. And then every single day the statue was on his mantle piece he should have returned it safely.

Sure, stealing things is bad.

> And, none of them even asked “what if we just leave this suitcase with a sign which says ‘to the police’?”

Actually, they handed them to the police through a newspaper. That's what they actually did! So clearly they asked it at some point ;)

krisoft 6 days ago

> Maybe you don't seriously consider doing really bad things, and even take steps playing with the idea of doing them. I definitely have, especially when I was younger.

There was a lot more there just "considering". If they just had a night chatting about the state of museum security that would have been "consider doing really bad things" and "take steps playing with the idea of doing them".

BlueTemplar 1 week ago

Certainly not kids, but then also men only reach maturity around 30 years old (around 25 for women).

technothrasher 1 week ago

How are you operationalizing "maturity", and what data supports your conclusion of ages for reaching this maturity? Typically studies of brain myelination, which is often used as marker for "maturity", show a linear progression until about 30 without a significant difference across sex or gender. However, they are usually quick to point out that myelination does not necessarily equal cognitive, emotional, and social maturity.