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Today is Ubuntu's 20th Anniversary

245 points by aquova 3 days ago | 107 comments

neom 3 days ago

I'm sure lots of people have lots of thoughts on them, but personally I'd like to give a shout out to Canonical. At least from my perspective in the early days of DigitalOcean the few interactions I did have with them were super positive, they seemed to really want us to win. I'll always have a soft spot Ubuntu and as far as community stewards go, on average Mark Shuttleworth has been good. Thanks Ubuntu Community! Thanks Mark! Thanks Canonical!

To me Ubuntu is what Mandrake never became.

silisili 3 days ago

Ubuntu was leaps ahead of Mandrake at least in installation friendliness, which, let's face it - is often the biggest hurdle getting people interested. The installer wasn't bad, but kinda threw you to the wolves wrt partitioning and such. As a novice, I had no idea what this meant.

Ubuntu came along and made it easy. A live bootable image to play with and see work, and an installer that just let you click through and let it do the dirty work without me having to know what I was doing. That went a long way, and IIRC was the first of its kind to take this approach.

I'd honestly still be using it today if not for snaps. I generally don't like tinkering and optimizing, much preferring to just get something working quickly and out of my way.

arp242 3 days ago

I don't recall Mandrake being particularly difficult, although it's been a long time and I don't remember much details, but it was my first Linux distro back in the day. From what I recall, the installation was very similar to Ubuntu(?) I guess my memory of things must be wrong.

Might be interesting to get a hold of an old Mandrake install CD and try in QEMU.

I do remember I had some problems upgrading Mandrake: after the upgrade I just got gibberish on the screen – some X problems I guess, but I didn't have the skill to debug it at the time. I just reinstalled with FreeBSD (which I had tried before Mandrake, but I couldn't get "xfree86 -configure" to work – the second time I had learned enough from Mandrake to make that work) and didn't look much at Linux for a long time after that.

silisili 3 days ago

Came across this. Better than many others, but still a little technical for a newbie IMO.

https://youtu.be/GvFelGwZBcc

arp242 3 days ago

Looking at release dates for Mandrake, FreeBSD, and Ubuntu, I think I must have used Mandrake 9.x, or maybe 8.x. I found a video of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBpRuXjHTw8 – in a quick watch-though, it seems roughly similar to what I remember of early Ubuntu (actually, in a quick check it seems that very early Ubuntu only had a text installer?)

I think Linux is inherently a bit tricky/hard for a newbie, because unlike Windows or macOS it can't just assume it's going to be the only OS. Installing e.g. Windows isn't necessarily newbie-friendly either – it's just that most people never have to do that.

mmcnl 3 days ago

You can install Gnome Software with one command if you don't like snaps. That's a negligible amount of tinkering for the average Linux user.

Moomoomoo309 3 days ago

You also need to add PPAs to get the non-snap versions of certain applications, like Firefox, since Ubuntu's deb package for it just installs the snap.

silisili 2 days ago

This wasn't true the last time I messed with it. I used synaptic to install packages, and many would just install the snap version anyways. Has that changed?

delduca 3 days ago

I miss Mandrake, after Slackware, it was my first distro!

neom 3 days ago

I learned linux proper because I ordered a mandrake CD in the mail. I saw a friends Slackware and I presumed it was just a "cooler windows" or something, so I ordered Mandrake, installed it, was like uh oh..oooh shit... this isn't windows at all...!!! But I couldn't figure out how to go back to NTFS so I just learned linux instead ha. Doubt I'd be here today if it was not for Mandrake (and basically hand rolling a modem driver).

linguae 3 days ago

I believe Ubuntu has been a positive for the Linux community. While there definitely were distributions before Ubuntu that focused on the user experience (Mandrake Linux and Lindows/Linspire come to mind), there are many people whose first experience with desktop Linux was through Ubuntu. Although I personally prefer FreeBSD for my Unix needs and Debian if I need actual Linux, Ubuntu is the distribution I recommend to those who are coming from Windows or macOS who want to try out desktop Linux. The last few times I used Ubuntu, whether it's on actual hardware or inside a VM, it seems to be reasonably simple to install, has sensible defaults, and supports a wide range of hardware.

musicale 3 days ago

Agreed - Ubuntu is the path of least resistance for installing Linux on your laptop or desktop.

But I still appreciate KDE-based Linux environments for their more straightforward, consistent, no-nonsense GUI, which seems to be derived from classic (pre Windows 8) Windows. Another thing that KDE seems to have gotten right is realizing that what makes macOS and Windows useful isn't just the GUI itself but the set of apps that use it and interoperate seamlessly with each other.

Ubuntu seems to have more UI churn than I'd like (even though I prefer Mac-style menu bars, etc.) And Wayland (which KDE has also moved to for better or for worse) has never brought me happiness.

I understand the motivation for Snaps, but I only want them for app store type apps, not for everything.

jorvi 3 days ago

> But I still appreciate KDE-based Linux environments for their more straightforward, consistent, no-nonsense GUI, which seems to be derived from classic (pre Windows 8) Windows. Another thing that KDE seems to have gotten right is realizing that what makes macOS and Windows useful isn't just the GUI itself but the set of apps that use it and interoperate seamlessly with each other.

I am deeply confused by this passage. KDE takes a much less staunch top-down development approach than Gnome, which means that every KDE application, and sometimes even with the KDE GUI, things are done their own way. It makes for a very disjointed experience when UI/UX patterns don't transfer between applications.

Its why I always end up switching back to Gnome, despite deeply disliking the flipside of the Gnome team's attitude. For example, it is beyond me why they haven't integrated Dock-to-Dash, Tiling Assistant and Night Theme Switcher. Especially Dash-to-Dock is so vastly popular that I reckon there's more people running Gnome with rather than without.

zymhan 3 days ago

That the GNOME team is notorious for regularly breaking their ABI compatibility between upgrades _is_ the issue.

HKH2 3 days ago

Why do they do that?

butterfly42069 3 days ago

When was the last time you used KDE? Cause this time around that hasn't been my experience at all, it's gnome that's currently really disjointed with random hamburger menus and whitespace everywhere.

Current KDE feels like the most well put together DE I've ever used, and its really efficient once I get my custom keybinds in there.

jorvi 3 days ago

> When was the last time you used KDE?

Half a year ago, thereabouts?

And no, Gnome is not inconsistent. I just opened a bunch of applications, and they either have a hamburger menu on the top left or top right, mostly with the same options list and "About" at the bottom of the list. There is some slight visual difference between GTK4 applications and GTK3 applications that are yet to have a rewrite, but it is very consistent. Which does comes with the aforementioned problem of the Gnome devs being very "my way or the highway".

In a strange way KDE reminds me of Windows, where the application devs always seem to be using 3-4 different frameworks, 3-4 different installers, and none of them try to get more than broad consistency between eachother.

butterfly42069 3 days ago

I did say in my experience, whereas you seem to be speaking in absolutes.

Either way I disagree with you. I think we have differing opinions of what good actually is, and gnome just isn't good anymore to me. Best of luck to you though.

cassepipe 3 days ago

I personally started with Mint and that's what I would recommend. It's "straightforward, consistent, no-nonsense" and works out of the box. Cinnamon is less configurable (though it is) than KDE maybe but more focused. The fact that is Ubuntu makes troubleshooting so much easier.

xcv123 3 days ago

We have Kubuntu for that

EDIT: for stupid downvoters - Kubuntu is an official Ubuntu variant. It is officially part of the Ubuntu project. https://kubuntu.org

throwdotnet 3 days ago

I prefer kubntu too, I'm currently on 22.04 LTS or 24.04 LTS depending on the machine.

I don't like the fact that you can't surface the menu with standard cua keyboard shortcuts in dolphin, e.g. alt-v for view. As someone previously using windows this is a step backwards for efficiency.

xcv123 3 days ago

Depends on the individual. I don't use those shortcuts on Windows either.

I almost never need the menus. I set the view settings globally, applied to all folders.

There are keyboard shortcuts for actions within those menus, like cut/copy/paste. The shortcuts are more configurable than on Windows.

F4 opens a terminal in the current directory

That's all I use 99.99% of the time

bachmeier 3 days ago

To a large extent, Ubuntu is the reason there is a Linux community. They did a lot of things right - mailing free installation CDs, having a guide for new users, having a distro that made installation easier on more hardware than any other - but the one revolutionary change was to kill RTFM.

Prior to Ubuntu, Linux was a tool for social misfits to get revenge on everyone else for getting stuffed in lockers in high school. Eric Raymond and his merry band of followers did way more than Microsoft to slow Linux adoption. Ubuntu put an end to that.

musicale 3 days ago

Also on the down side, Ubuntu seems to have lost the plot a bit by adding things like advertisements for Ubuntu Pro.

I would like to submit PRs to remove these ads, but of course they would never be accepted.

We've seen where the road of advertisements eventually leads (Windows 11), and it isn't good.

Adding extra garbage into CLI sessions is something that I greatly dislike because 1) it adds distracting noise and 2) it can break scripts. Some non-Canonical offenders include GNU parallel and Apple's cc and c++. I don't like how vim includes political messages either, even for causes that I might otherwise support, simply because it is distracting when I want to concentrate on getting work done. Tools should focus on the task at hand and avoid promotional messaging.

benoau 3 days ago

In addition to the direct impact Ubuntu had it also sits at the core of so many other popular distros which de facto standardized setting up and configuring so much consumer Linux software.

tastysandwich 3 days ago

Seems like everyone loves to hate Ubuntu lately. From the Amazon search icon years ago, to Snaps, Mir, "pro" updates (which I don't get the backlash about..).

But man, I started using this distro 18 years ago? And I still use it today. I can tell you, it's gotten more usable, more stable, and easier to install, without (imo) sacrificing any of what we love about Linux systems. If you hate snaps you can just remove them.

It's an OS I can easily recommend to beginners who want to dip their toes in the Linux world. They can install it without any help.

And I get that so much is a testament to the software Ubuntu uses getting better. But it brings it all together in such a great way.

I used Arch Linux for a few years. But I didn't really like having to check message boards for any breaking changes before updating lest my system become unusable... As a busy professional and dad, I don't see myself switching off of Ubuntu anytime soon.

bigstrat2003 3 days ago

> If you hate snaps you can just remove them.

You kinda can't, and that's the point people are angry about. I never personally cared one way or the other about snaps. But it is not at all acceptable that Ubuntu will sometimes install a snap when I explicitly use apt to install it. That was the moment I decided I'm not gonna use Ubuntu any more: they started to override my decisions about what to install on my computer, and that isn't ok.

kiwijamo 3 days ago

> If you hate snaps you can just remove them.

The last time I tried Ubuntu it would automatically install the snap version if I tried to `apt install` a package. Is this behavior easy to disable? Do they even ship apt packages of stuff they use snap for?

proactivesvcs 3 days ago

apt "pinning" is the process you're looking for. This allows you to prevent reinstallation of snapd and prefer other sources for packages, e.g. Firefox from Mozilla's PPA.

kiwijamo 3 days ago

So Ubuntu doesn't provide apt packages so if I want to use apt I have to muck around with PPAs? I don't want to have to add a PPA for every software I install. This is why Debian is better for my use case -- all I have to do is apt install and boom I have the Debian package installed. All this works out of the box on a Debian installation.

bachmeier 3 days ago

Sorry, but this is not true. It's claimed you can use pinning, but at least on my installation, it didn't work no matter what documentation I followed. There was literally no way to stop it from silently switching to the Firefox snap. Well, installing Linux Mint fixed it, but that's not really the same thing.

theamk 3 days ago

nope, for major things like Firefox, it's either snaps or third-party repos.

dax_ 2 days ago

I'm overall very positive on Ubuntu, but snaps was a big misstep in my opinion. When snaps were rolled out, lots of features were no longer working in apps packaged as snaps, or it was at least confusing to users (like file picker suddenly defaulting to some isolated path). For an operating system that always had a big focus on good user experience, this was really mismanaged and prematurely rolled out. And then they decided to force that bad UX on people by pointing apt packages to snaps suddenly, taking away the users choice to not use snap.

The Amazon search lens was also a mistake, but at least it was easy for "regular" users to disable it. About Mir: so long as everything works, regular users wouldn't even notice, which is fine. I don't like the fragmentation in the Linux landscape, but oh well.

zamadatix 3 days ago

Ubuntu was ahead of its time in usability but things like "They can install it without any help" aren't particularly unique or compelling claims to make 20 years later. In some ways it has went backwards in usability. As an example, you mention snaps: say a user comes to find they don't like dealing with sandboxed apps being delivered via a separate update and package system... can they really "just remove them?". E.g. try removing snapd and Firefox then installing Firefox... it's no longer in the repositories and you're now in the realm of adding custom PPAs just to have a contiguous package system for default apps. By this point users have said "fuck it" and moved on.

If you've already got something going there's probably not enough reason to bother switching things up. If you're doing it as a new user... why not compare to Debian or another Debian-based rather than something radically different in type and focus as Arch?

singhrac 3 days ago

Once long ago our family Windows computer had a motherboard failure and I convinced my parents to buy just a replacement motherboard in the right shape (maybe processor as well, now that I think about it), and we tried to fix it. While the data on the disk was recovered, we couldn’t get Windows to recognize this as the “same device” so we had to buy a new license. Instead I installed Ubuntu and casually taught my mom how to use it - I figured it was worth a try before buying a license.

She had no problems whatsoever using it for all of her work and barely noticed the change, and it brought new life to a computer that would have almost certainly ended up in a landfill 7 years early.

Given the hard work of the Wine/Proton developers (and many, many others) I can only imagine the situation is even better now.

Happily2020 3 days ago

I think many "average" computer users spend almost all of their time inside a web browser.

I think that apart from MS Office apps (which don't have a good enough alternative, especially for Excel), most of the other apps that people use are already available on linux, either natively, through electron, or as a web app.

A beginner friendly distro like Ubuntu (especially the LTS version) can be ideal for a lot of people. Reducing the bloatware overhead that Windows brings, increasing performance and battery life, adding privacy, and reducing the likelihood of malware.

triyambakam 3 days ago

As a teen I installed dd-wrt on our router. Visiting home about ten years later after college I opened up the gateway address to a nice reminder seeing it was still there. My parents had no need or understanding to change it.