Hacker Remix

Energy-based model explains how chronic stress transforms into disease over time

183 points by andrewstetsenko 3 days ago | 54 comments

jgneff 3 days ago

I think this study is related to two books I read this summer: Burn, by Herman Pontzer, presents his "constrained energy expenditure hypothesis," and Exercised, by Daniel E. Lieberman, discusses his "costly repair hypothesis."

Together, they try to explain why exercise can force your body to stop using its energy to destroy itself (inflammation, autoimmune diseases) and instead use its energy to restore itself (releasing antioxidants, repairing damage).

azeirah 3 days ago

Kurtzgesagt had a video about this very recently too. About calory expenditure.

discordance 3 days ago

This one: https://youtu.be/vSSkDos2hzo

profstasiak 2 days ago

this book is pseudoscience though. https://mynutritionscience.com/p/exercise-weight-loss

there are more good critique online, sorry busy right now to find it.

But please don't spread this myth.

QuantumGood 2 days ago

One formula for getting a publisher interested in your book is claiming new data that intuitively makes sense. Consultants will list things that many people believe that contradict established science or wisdom, and then there is a search for data that can be gathered into a counter-argument to find a book topic that a publisher will put marketing dollars into.

Pontzer contends “[exercise] just won’t do much for your weight" because "we naturally compensate for exercise by reducing non-exercise activity expenditure (NEAT) and resting metabolic rate (RMR)". That excercisers exercise less when they're not specifically exercising.

Ward says Pontzer underestimates exercise's role, misinterprets energy compensation and overemphasis anecdotal evidence, and cherry-picks data by choosing studies that primarily show minimal changes in Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) and weight loss with increased physical activity.

Ward points to a broader range of studies that demonstrate significant increases in TDEE and weight loss in individuals who engage in moderate to high levels of exercise, arguing that this evidence indicates exercise can be a substantial factor in energy expenditure and weight management.

Ward specifically points out

  Pontzer told me “the distinction between confounders and mediators is largely conceptual” and “They would be treated the same in stats analysis such as the one used”, but any statistician would argue the differences are defined and vitally important. Confounders interfere with the causal pathway we’re interested in; mediators are part of the causal pathway we’re interested in. Hence, when statistically adjusting and removing the effect of different variables, we do this for confounders, not mediators – thus removing the interference.

jgneff 2 days ago

I enjoyed reading both books, but especially Herman Pontzer's stories in Burn about his time with the Hadza people in Africa. The study is based in part on his research (Pontzer, 2018, Pontzer et al., 2021). His hypothesis does seem to be controversial and counter-intuitive.

Thank you for the link to the nutritionist's article. I'll read it with interest.

nobrains 3 days ago

When I search (amazon, google, and other searches) for one these books, the other also shows up as a very close result. And vice versa as well.

gregwebs 3 days ago

Lets agree for the sake of argument that if the body does not have enough energy to do what it needs that causes harm. Then why not eat more food to deal with the problem?

I think this model is missing a critical component: the bodies ability to use energy effectively is limited by having the proper nutrients available. The easiest example being a deficiency of B vitamins since they are used for energy metabolism. Many other factors can impair energy metabolism and just eating more will not fix the situation.

Whereas with this model we have statements that seem too over-simplified:

> The organism’s energy consumption capacity is biologically limited

This seems overstated- we know that certain athletes can consume 2x or even 3x a resting amount to support physical exertion- the human body seems designed to be able to produce more power for physical exertion when needed by consuming more energy (in addition to making long-term adaptations to make energy usage more efficient).

I also think that readers of this paper may take away an understated understanding of the possible negative effects of energy deficiency. Any physiological problem could be impacted by energy metabolism. For example, even if something is known to be caused by a deficiency in a nutrient that cannot be synthesized by the body, it's still possible that improved energy metabolism might be able to reduce the usage of that nutrient in some pathways to conserve more for where it is needed.

t0bia_s 3 days ago

- the human body seems designed to be able to produce more power for physical exertion when needed by consuming more energy (in addition to making long-term adaptations to make energy usage more efficient).

Most top athletes are retiring around 35. Their bodies are ruined like those who need to physically work hardly every day. They look elder as well.

We are not machines that will do more when given more sources without consequences.

esperent 3 days ago

> ...retiring around 35. Their bodies are ruined

From what I can find, this is incorrect, unless the athlete is doing a high impact sport like American football, rugby, boxing etc.

If they're doing a non impact sport like swimming, cycling, running, they are likely to live longer and healthier than non athletes.

https://healthland.time.com/2012/12/14/fast-stronger-longer-...

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4534511/

bastawhiz 2 days ago

> Most top athletes are retiring around 35. Their bodies are ruined like those who need to physically work hardly every day. They look elder as well.

This isn't a true statement. Just turn on golf or bowling or cycling or marathon running or triathlons for a few hours. People retire from sports early for lots of reasons. The ones whose bodies are wrecked are overwhelmingly the ones in impact sports.

But athletes also retire because they're no longer competitive. A 40 year old, on average, can't jump as high or run as fast as as 27 year old. You're not going to be a successful 50 year old basketball player when you're up against people decades younger than you.

The human body can't be simplified down to a candle, where once you've burned through it, it's done and over.

gregwebs 3 days ago

Most athletes play for reasons other than health. In a competitive environment with physical contact that rewards over-exertion and playing through injuries. Those that keep pushing their body to their limit will likely find consequences. Just doing so many repetitive movements for sports will damage the body unless the athlete can train those pathways to be strong enough. Most athletes seem to play until they can't play through injury anymore.

In contrast, exercise that keeps good health in mind can require noticeable extra energy consumption and seems like it would fall in line with the huge volume of research showing the benefits of exercise.

In contrast this article seems to point to studies of increased resting metabolic rates being harmful with no evidence about exercise.

photochemsyn 3 days ago

Link to full paper:

https://www.picardlab.org/uploads/7/7/8/4/77845210/2022_bobb...

Lots of interesting stuff about mitochondrial allostatic load. It's essentially a Goldilocks problem - the car that's never driven breaks down quickly when you take it out for a drive, but if you're constantly pushing the accelerator and slamming the brakes, the car's lifetime is cut in half. The paper seems to focus on social and psychological factors that unnecessarily increase stress:

> "From this energetic perspective, the evolution of likes and dislikes, feelings and emotions, and approach/withdrawal behaviors arose to minimize the energetic cost of life."

Case example: Someone just asked me about my holiday season plans and my blood pressure probably went through the roof... I think I'm going to send them this paper.

krackers 3 days ago

Diseases like chronic fatigue syndrome are thought to be the result of mitochondrial dysfunction, right? Maybe that also fits in here.

diskevich 3 days ago

Stress management isn't just about understanding the problem—it's about actionable solutions.

Exercise, even a brief walk, reduces cortisol and boosts mood-enhancing endorphins.

Meditation and mindfulness, once seen as trendy, are now scientifically proven to rewire the brain for better stress handling.

Nutrition plays a surprising role; omega-3-rich foods like salmon can lower stress hormones.

Quality sleep, especially deep sleep, allows the brain to reset and repair.

Finally, don't underestimate the power of social support. Sharing your struggles with others can significantly lighten your mental load.

chiefalchemist 3 days ago

Agree, with all in full sans the last one. Of course, if you're struggling, seek support.

We all have bad days or even bad weeks, life happens and often it's best to learn this. The current fad (?) of "I'm going to experess my non-positive feelings as they are all the time" gives too much weight to what are normal passing moments.

I don't want to say being a hypochondriac is normalized (else I might get canceled) but... Words, they create worlds. It's important to be mindful of what we choose to create.

Belief drives behavior, and when allowed to perpetuate the victim mentality can cause unnecessary (semi) permanent damage. It's perfectly normal to experience some pain. Don't make more of it than necessary.